The Bookster Podcast: Four Pillars

  • Episode 2
Who's Talking?
  • Simon Beattie
  • Robin Morris
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Robin and Simon talk about Caravan Sitefinder and the four pillars on which Bookster was founded.

Welcome to the Bookster podcast hosted by Simon, talking with CEO Robin Morris.  

In episode two of their podcast, Robin and Simon delve into the journey of Bookster, a software company.

Key takeaways

They reflect on the sale and repurchase of Caravan Sitefinder, highlighting decisions around business focus and economic viability.

Robin outlines Bookster’s evolution from a simple booking tool to a comprehensive platform for vacation rentals, emphasizing principles like low entry barriers, high-quality support, and broad service coverage.

They stress the importance of defining business principles and staying adaptable in the competitive landscape of software as a service (SaaS) businesses, offering insights valuable to aspiring entrepreneurs.

The Four Pillars are:

1) Low Barrier to Entry

2) Easy to use

3) High Quality Support

4) Vertical Integration

Join the next episode as Simon, Robin and Adam discuss one of Bookster's key pillars - a low barrier to entry.

Credits

Editor
Simon Beattie
Producer
Joint Beat Productions

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome back to episode two of our podcast, where we explore real life experiences of running a software company and see what lessons we can take away from these experiences.

Now, today, as always, I'm joined by, uh, CEO
Minute 1
and Co-founder of Bookster Robin Morris.

Robin, thanks for joining me again.

Nice to have you back.

Nice to be here.

Nice to see you again.

Nice to see you.

And, uh, back to episode two, which is great.

Um, I thought today, um, we could build on some of the conversation that we had in episode one.

Um, so if you haven't listened to episode one yet, everyone go back and listen to that, and then we can move on a bit in this episode where we explore some of the things that we did talk about, uh, last time.

So, um, without any further ado, if you're happy enough, we've just go on with the, uh, questions and answers.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just crack on.

Let's go for it.

Fantastic.

Um, so in the last episode, uh, we spoke about the journey, uh, of creation of, of Bookster and, and where you are today.

Um, but there's a couple of things that came up from what you were saying last week, uh, and I thought we'd be good to explore that a little bit further.

So, something that you mentioned
Minute 2
before was about Caravan Site Finder, which was a website that you, I think asked, I mean, well, why don't you tell us about it? Um, okay.

There's a bit of hiss, a bit of a history to it, which is quite interesting.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, uh, just a recap, uh, on who we are.

So Bookster, we are a small, uh, software company.

We are, um, software as a service, um, or SaaS, uh, based company based in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Um, and, uh, yeah, hopefully this is, uh, uh, useful listen for people out there who are either starting software companies or running small SaaS businesses or interested in knowing what's going on behind the scenes at Bookster.

'cause perhaps they use it, um, uh, and know why we make our decisions and why we, uh, decide to do the things we do and a bit of background into who we are.

So, um, yeah, hopefully, uh, those sorts of people might find this interesting.

Minute 3
Um, but yeah, Simon, as, as you were saying, um, in the last episode, we mentioned Caravan Site Finder, so that's how we started.

I did, I didn't found Caravan Site Finder.

I just joined as a developer, um, about 20 years ago now.

Um, as a software developer, I was on the software development team.

Uh, Carvan Site Finder was essentially, uh, and is a list of campaign caravaning sites around the uk.

Um, uh, so a sort of quite, uh, traditional, uh, dot com business, I suppose you might describe it.

Um, so essentially campsites and caravan, Pikes Parks would, uh, pay to advertise their campsite, uh, on, on the website.

And, uh, the public would go on filter and search on the camping and caravan parks and, um, usually just place an inquiry to the, the park about, uh, staying at the park.

Minute 4
And we built up a platform, content management system and of course, booking system to run that business.

So, um, Bookster or, uh, the company that, uh, Bookster's, uh, uh, well, the company name that, uh, or our company name Tri Logic Limited founded, uh, as a result of selling Caravan Site Finder in 2007.

Um, and, uh, so yeah, we touched on that in the last episode, but, uh, I suppose the interesting is we, we bought it back, uh, in 2015, um, and ran it again for a little while.

So, yeah, I mean, that is the interesting part of it, isn't it? So, I mean, I guess, you know, the, the, the question is, uh, why, I mean, why did you sell it in the first place, I guess, and then why make that decision to buy it back all those years later? Yeah, so the, uh, the sale of it, uh, was, I wasn't really involved in that decision, but it was simply, um, uh,
Minute 5
to fund.

So we, we went on to form a software company and have a contractor on the website, so it made sense for us as software developers.

And, um, the other people who owned Caravan Site Finder and the majority of Caravan site Finder, they were essentially selling the business, moving on to other things.

Uh, Craig Douglas was kind of the main, uh, um, he was the MD of Caravan Sightfinder at that time, and he went on to become one of our clients.

And also he is, uh, you know, shareholder in Tribal Logic Limited.

Um, so selling Caravan Site Finder enabled him to start another business, uh, and move on.

Uh, he, he started, uh, reserve Apartments and some other things, so it allowed him to go on and be entrepreneurial in other areas.

Uh, and it allowed us to go on and form a software company, kind of, which is what we wanted to do.

Um, and Craig's still on our board as well, so he's, he's a,
Minute 6
a helpful voice, uh, that we, that we still have.

Mm-Hmm.

Um, and yeah, so why did we buy it back? Well, um, we were offered it so, um, it really wasn't making enough money for the people that we sold it to.

Um, uh, uh, Haymarket, we sold it to a publishing company.

They weren't really making enough money from it.

They, as a large, it's interesting the economics of this as opposed to some extent because as a larger company, it needs to be a larger business in order to justify a lot of the costs that were associated with it.

So, um, it, you know, when they first purchased it, they probably gave it a couple of years where they were like, right, okay, fine for it will be losing money.

But then they do, even though it's, it's one business that they were running as alongside lots of other businesses, they start allocating costs to it.

Minute 7
You know, whether that's, um, marketing people or SEO people, um, or, you know, the people running the business salespeople, et cetera.

And so for them internally, uh, it never probably became anything that, that could justify continuing it as well as they were paying us, uh, to technically host and run it.

So, right.

Um, but for us, uh, if we, um, we could look at the income that was bringing in and say, well, actually for us, we could hire a salesperson, run it technically, and do it profitably.

So it made sense for us to buy it.

Um, the economics of it stacked up for us.

Right.

Basically.

Yeah.

Okay.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Um, and so do you still own that, uh, site then? No.

So, uh, ed Okay.

Minute 8
In 2020 we sold it again, um, a, uh, this time to a company called Michael Paul holidays and a, yeah, we basically just passed it over wholesale.

We don't have any sort of contract or anything with them.

Um, we just kinda sold it wholesale and the reason for selling it at that time was to really focus a hundred percent on Bookster.

Um, so that was why we sold it, and we were kind of vaguely looking to sell it for, uh, no, I dunno, about a year, I suppose.

Right.

Okay.

So, so just to try and clarify, I guess in my head, and for anyone listening maybe as well, so Tribal Logic is the overarching company, uh, tribal Logic used to run Caravan, site finder, et cetera, along with other things that were going on.

You eventually have sold almost everything and you're now concentrating just on Bookster.

Minute 9
Yes, that's right.

Yes.

Although we've only really sold one thing, but we, you sold, You sold a couple of times.

We sold one thing twice.

Right.

We, Um, we did, we did do other things as well.

We didn't just do Bookster.

We did, uh, worked with events companies, which we still do a tiny bit, but, um, we worked with theater companies, we worked with other publishers.

We, we had a content management.

We still do have a content management system, and, and our software platform is quite generic, I suppose.

So we used it to do, to have a, a broad array of clients in different markets.

Um, but, uh, the realization is that really, I suppose, no, it's not a, not, not that we're some kinds of geniuses or anything, but, um, that, you know, if you've got software, it, it needs to, you need to have lots of people using it in the exact same way,
Minute 10
really replicating and just using the software in the same way in order, um, to, for it to make sense really.

Otherwise, if everyone's using it in a different way or everyone's, you're kind of modifying your software for every client, it's just too expensive, really.

Or, you know, you can't charge people what it takes to do those modifications.

So you end up also, what you end up having is a few very large clients that you're very heavily dependent on, and if one or two of them go, you are in real trouble.

That's the other thing about the way that we were working before outside of Caravan Site Finder, but with all these other clients where you're make, you're sort of changing your platform to be quite bespoke for them.

Uh, they pay you a decent amount of money to do it, but then you're making your platform less usable
Minute 11
and you are, because they're paying you so much, you feel like you have to do that.

And also, but you come become quite reliant upon them as well.

So, yeah, it's a, you know, we wanted to shift our model so that we had more clients, more smaller clients, or medium sized clients that were using our platform in the exact same way.

Mm-Hmm.

And that was part of the reason for moving to Bookster.

Right.

Okay.

No, and it makes sense.

I mean, yes, you don't wanna be beholden to a couple of clients that, uh, might eventually pack up and leave and I guess leave you high and dry a bit.

Yeah.

Yep.

So you, um, so we, we've got to a point where you are just Bookster, um, and not just Bookster, but you know what I mean, you are Bookster, um, and the Bookster, like you said last time was essentially about a, a buy now button on a website.

Yeah.

Yes, that's right.

So, yep.

Minute 12
So, sorry.

No, I was just gonna say, so, so maybe the story then, from that, uh, you know, what that enabled you to do, um, and how then Bookster has grown from that decision, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

So, uh, yeah, it started out as very originally a simple book now button.

Um, allowing someone to book a holiday at a single, uh, property holiday rental properties.

So vacation rental property, if you're in America, vacation rental, if you're in the uk, it's self catering.

If you're in, uh, uh, other places, it's a holiday night.

The SEO of this is a nightmare, I tell you.

Um, uh, so yeah, so we, it was a simple, the, the idea was we had this ability to create this simple book now button.

People could log into Bookster, pay us a small monthly fee
Minute 13
and take bookings.

Originally the bookings were confirmed just through PayPal.

Someone had a PayPal link, that's how they would process the payments from the guest, and we managed their availability and their pricing, and that was it.

Um, and then, um, it sort of grew a little bit.

It became somewhere where you could manage availability a bit more.

So through, um, I cal syncing.

So I Cal is a, um, a way of sharing calendars, so sharing in the context, in our context of sharing when something is booked or not booked.

So we could import those I cals and export those IAL feeds.

Um, you need to stop me if this is, uh, just gobbledy cook, by the way.

No, you carry, carry on.

Carry on.

Yeah, carry on.

Um, so, uh, it was starting to grow
Minute 14
and then, uh, we thought, right, we need to think, right, what are our, um, basic principles? What's the, what are the, what are we going to aim for? As, so it was growing, it was getting more clients, but we wanted to turn it into more of a product that people would sign up to, they would reuse.

It would be useful to them in broader parts of their business, running their holiday rentals.

So, um, we sort of came up with some core principles, as it were, as to what Bookster is.

And, uh, you know, we've moved them around a bit over time, but they've kind of been the things that have guided us in making our decisions about what we do add to Bookster or not, and who we market to and, uh, who are our clients or who are our prospective clients.

So the first one, um, was we wanted it to have a really low barrier to entry.

So we wanted it to be simple to sign up.

Mm-Hmm.

Minute 15
You could just do it yourself.

Um, that sounds obvious, but even now, lots of our competitors, you cannot just sign up to them.

You have to go through some sort of onboarding process.

You can't just do it yourself.

Right.

Okay.

Um, uh, and you know, that's true for lots and lots of our competitors.

Probably the vast majority.

Um, we have no annual contracts, so we don't tie people in.

We make it, you know, um, if people want to pay annually and get a discount because they, some people want that security, then that's fine.

We offer that.

But we also offer this month to month, if you wanna stop, you can just stop.

Um, also being super easy to use.

So you don't need to talk to us.

You can, you can log in and do, um, most of it yourself.

You can get set up and do it on your own without us.

Minute 16
Um, and you can use either an instant website yourself if you're taking bookings through Bookster, or you can just plug it on, plug it into your own website.

So those, um, that was like one kind of core principle, low barrier to entry.

Mm-Hmm.

Um, the other is, uh, well we had high quality, easy to use, so that was part of the low barrier to entry, but it sort of stands on its own as well.

Then, um, high, I'm going to, I'll do a bit more.

An easy to use.

So easy to use is super important, not just so there's a low barrier to entry, but also, um, so that, uh, people can do it themselves.

They can, they don't need to be constantly interacting with, um, you know, support or whatever if they need to, you know, there's no, they can do it on their own.

That's the the idea.

Um, the next one, sorry, on your go.

Sorry.

No, I was just gonna ask about that actually.

Minute 17
'cause that's quite interesting.

I think, um, from an outsider's point of view is the fact that you're saying you can, you can sign up yourself and you can do it all yourself, which is on one hand, you know, I guess a really cool thing you could just go and do it.

But as the company, as Bookster, does that not then open you up to any, you know, unscrupulous people perhaps using your system? You know, you're not vetting them in any way.

So does that come back to you at all? Um, not really because we are really just providing a software service.

So we never take any payments from guests.

Um, we are not the ones vetting if people should or should not be on various channels.

So there are some, if someone was unscrupulous and wanted to, um, say fake a holiday rental just to take money from people,
Minute 18
then they would have to do it.

They would have to, they still have to have a payment gateway really to do that.

Um, so they have to go through that, those barriers.

Um, we do get some unscrupulous people signing up, but what they're usually doing is testing a credit card.

So they log in, they make a payment inside Bookster, but they're not, they're not really wanting to use Bookster in any way other than just to test to see if the card works.

Right.

Okay.

And that, you know, and then we usually get to the bottom of those people fairly quickly and, you know, cancel their account or try and get in touch with the cardholder.

Um, yeah.

But yeah, I see what you mean.

Um, but it hasn't really, that isn't really, uh, generally been an issue because there are some other fairly high, high barriers that you have to cross to take.

Um, you know, you have to sort
Minute 19
of authenticate your identity in a couple of ways before you could really use it to Right.

Take guest bookings.

Okay.

No, that's just interesting, uh, approach I guess.

But it's one that's obviously works for you and it's actually apart from other people as well.

Yeah.

Yep.

Um, so, um, where are we? Right? Let's have we, yeah, so, um, Sorry I put you off there.

Yeah, you did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I should really be used to you asking questions because that's my old point.

Um, uh, so the other, the other sort of two things, uh, that we try to kind of follow as sort of guiding principles are high quality support.

So, you know, being super responsive to our users questions.

Um, we've got chat, telephone, um, email.

We also do some support over Slack as well.

Minute 20
So for some of our larger clients, um, or people, if they use Slack, we'll have a kind of live Slack channel.

If anyone's familiar with Slack, they'll know, know what we're talking about as a kind of, uh, chat facility.

Sure.

Um, you'll know about that Simon.

'cause we just, we've used it to kind of help us.

Yeah.

This podcast, I Mean, to be fair, I hadn't used it before we started doing this podcast.

And it is a very simple, uh, to get the hang of it.

And, uh, you send videos and files and all sorts of things, can't you? So, uh, Yeah, exactly.

So it's, so it's another way of trying to, you know, be there for our clients and be there really, uh, be responsive as we can be.

Um, and the sort of final, uh, I suppose, um, pillar that we use is, it's kind of called vertical integration as it were, maybe, or, uh, just covering as many bases as we can to help people run their holiday rental business, um,
Minute 21
without necessarily, so, so we go broad rather than going deep as it were.

So we try to, um, so for a good example of this might be, so for cleaning.

So we allow cleaners to log into Bookster to see books bookings, see arrivals, depart departures and things like that.

Um, but we don't really have a task management system.

Uh, we don't allow cleaners to upload photos of their cleans.

Um, there's no, um, marketplace of cleaners.

There's no app for cleaners.

It's, it's relatively simple in terms of what they can and can't do.

But we do basically cover that ability for them to see the bookings that are arriving log in market is cleaned.

Uh, and hopefully that gives 'em enough.

There are other third party systems you could use if you really wanted some super complicated management tool.

Minute 22
But we are trying to say, look, you know, we'll cover all those bases for you.

Um, and then if you're really super interested in, um, I dunno, whatever it happens to be, some other part of, um, your business cleaning or, um, dynamic pricing or something, um, which again, we've got dynamic pricing in Bookster, um, and it's really easy to use and just switch on.

But if you were, you know, had some fascination with, you know, these, some other tools or does it really drill down, get heaps of functionality, Bookster might not be the right thing for you.

Um, right.

We, yeah, I mean, I think, um, just to, we're gonna be running a bit long on this podcast.

We're gonna, we're gonna wrap up shortly 'cause time has flown past, but I think, in fact you've mentioned dynamic pricing.

Minute 23
There is, is a whole other topic that we can talk about.

'cause it's really, I find it really interesting a whole lot, uh, idea around dynamic pricing.

Um, but yeah, I mean I think, uh, you sort of outlined there your sort of guiding principles and obviously, um, for people starting up their own company or business of any kind, I guess it's probably vital that one of those things that they do is to, to work out what their principles are for how they want their business to operate and, and run.

Yeah.

A a another aspect of our, um, sort of high support that we're currently doing at the moment is we do, um, uh, we do weekly drop-in calls that are just open calls.

Um, if you search around our website, you'll be able to find, um, a link to the call.

It's usually on a Wednesday.

And actually if there's someone listening to this podcast and wants literally to hop on and ask, um, ask a question, not just about books to the,
Minute 24
um, you know, the, the product, but one wanted to ask is about our, our software, you'd be more than welcome to to hop on.

Um, alright, great.

It's, yeah, essentially just an open call.

So yeah, So we can leave details of that in the show notes.

Yep, yep.

As well.

Um, I think though, for this session, we will, uh, wrap it up if, if, if you're all right with that, Robin.

I think that's been another interesting, uh, conversation and some, some good points there.

Um, lots more to talk about.

Obviously in future episodes we will get to some questions as well that we had after our first podcast.

Uh, so we'll, we'll answer some of those in upcoming episodes as well.

If anyone listening, um, has a question that they would like to send in, uh, please do send it via email to podcast@booksterhq.com.

Um, and that just to reiterate podcast@Booksterhq.com and we will get round answering those.

Minute 25
Uh, it'd be great to have some questions.

Um, Bookster is also running a sort of sister, uh, podcast to this, uh, which is about, uh, quite specifically about holiday rental advice.

Um, so if anyone's interested in, in just learning and listening and, and getting some, you know, holiday rental advice from, uh, from Bookster, uh, please find, uh, it's called Smashing your Holiday Rental Goals.

And, uh, so you can search for that.

We'll leave a link to that in the description of this podcast as well.

Well, that's really worth checking out as well, so please do that.

Um, Robin, thank you again for your time.

Thank you.

Good, good to have another chat with you.

We'll do it again very soon.

And for everyone tuning in, listening and watching on YouTube as well.

Thank you very much.

And until next time, take care and goodbye.

Goodbye.

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